Horseproblems australia blog – 12th oct, 2020

HI Folks. Hope You are all well.

The Rain continues. Victor Harbor has now topped 600mm and it keeps coming. Incredible. The Aquifer is full and it is running out of the ground all over the place.

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Coaching

I have mentioned this a number of times over the Years, saying that all Coaches should be checked once a Year and the progress of their Pupils monitored, for if there is no improvement in their scores or placings then the Coach is failing and by extension, their money lost to them and the Industry at large.

Yesterday, Mrs. HP was one of 3 or 4 Senior Coaches that held a Clinic where People get Coaches, then compete and get Judged and then taught again.

Mrs. HP was teaching one particular Rider and it was pretty obvious that the Horse had never really become submissive. All of a sudden, 15 Minutes into the Lesson, the Rider starts exclaiming,

” This is unbelievable. I have been having Lessons for 3 Years with a Level 1 Coach and for the first time, in 15 Minutes, You get my Horse becoming submissive. I have wasted 3 Years ☹”

The Lady also advised, that she had never been told about the ‘Outside Rein’!!!

So again, the Administration of the Industry is lacking and of course, everyone suffers financially, just like this Lady 😌

Horse Starting

You will remember the young Horse that Bucked Mrs. HP off recently, the Peak of Her Helmet breaking Her Nose, well of course, it wasn’t the fault of the Horse but the Wintec GP which shot over the Wither of the Horse, anyhow, all is well and Horse and Rider happy.

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Well done all

Snip

Hi Linda
Just thought I’d touch base and let you know how Snip is doing living in NZ. I’ve had him for two years now ! I have just started training with Cooper Oborn who lives near us. He spoke very highly of your riding and training.

Snip is delightful, a sensitive, respectful soul. I am getting much pleasure out of him.

He is starting to get his neck back and you were right about his back, the roach back has all but gone. Is a bit of a struggle getting him to release the neck and use it, but it is coming too 🙂 He has been selected for the FEI World Challenge in November.

Hope you and yours are well and keeping safe with the COVID issues. We won’t be doing the usual trip to Equitana any time soon. My daughter competed at Caboolture last year, but doesn’t look like we’ll be competing in AUz for a while 🙁 sadly…..

Regards
Frankie Webb and Snip

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Hi Frankie,
Thanks heaps for the update. Snip looks great!!! Love the picture. 
I’m so happy he found such a great home. 
Amazing you’re working with Cooper. He is a talent. Your gain and our loss!
It’s been a crazy time with covid 19. Hopefully a vaccine or cure will return life to some sort of normality. Then I look forward to meeting you at a competition in Australia in the future. 
Stay safe and well. Thanks again for contacting me. It’s so nice hearing a horse that you love being looked after and looking healthy and happy.
Kind regards,Linda 

Letters

Equine Science Horse Training

Having watched the program, and observed just on how great this gentleman and his son are with his theory of breaking in at Equitana , Thank goodness that the “OLD METHODS” such as those exhibited by John O’leary actually work.

For many years the old men of horsemanship have been doing what is required without the utter rubbish being proffered in todays equine world. More and more gurus are lining their pockets with their theories which do not actually achieve what they believe in the time allocated. Watch the video yourselves.

Old men like John O’leary are not seen as the “scientific type” needed to benefit the industry because they have no letters or formal degrees after their name, just years and years of doing what needs to be done. He is NOT the only one who has passed this route, many have gone before and many will come after BUT the methodologies being put forward here are like most academics educational theories………vey wordy, impressively written, containing lots and lots of impressive theories but not all that practical really on the ground.

In my opinion, The opportunity for real change has been pushed aside because of the insistence to have some intellectual write some whoopee do theoristic syllabus which like all educational institutions can look at the cover page and say “ it must be right, it must be good because ‘Joe Bloggs’ has a huge educational knowledge , just look at the letters after his name ABCDEFG etc when in fact it does NOT follow that on the ground his theories are in fact competent and will stand up to time honoured methods.

Such as it is, this is my opinion, and I will continue to work and train my horses using the tried and true methods of the “OLD” Horsemen.

Regards

David

Thanks David. Regards

Equine Science Ground Work

“Hi There. I have just moved to an Equestrian Centre and was leading my Horse as You showed me.

The Lady who owns it, pulled me up and told me not to Lead a Horse like that. I should lead it in the Equine Science Way. Could You clarify for me??”

Hi There. I would rather not comment on the particular Centre or Owner but perhaps reflect. Do You remember when You could not even lead your Horse to the exercise Paddock? Remember wrestling with the Horse, pitting all Your strength and frustration against the Horse, to arrive at any location???? Have a think about that and see what you deduce.
Regards

Running Reins System

Gday John Take a look at the before & after photos .. top Photo Taken in JuneOther photo taken about a week ago .. this is just prior to him having a muscle works session with Red light therapy as he slipped in his paddock & was showing signs of discomfort in his NS hind hip region .. this is the horse that was a complete mess in the physical & mental department when I bought him .. yes I knew what I was getting when I took him on .. take a look at the difference though all helped by the running rein system & a strategic work plan that kept him working in more straight lines until he got more strength to manage circles ..

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Well done Lorraine. Outstanding result in such a short time. Go the Standies!!! 😀

The Horse that doesn’t sleep

Hi do you have any training videos or helpful information on horses that won’t lie down to sleep? We are certain my 15 yr QH has sleep deprivation, as he stumbles during his sleep. It seems as thou he is trying to be the watcher of others and not looking after himself. Any info would be a great help. Thank you

Wow Jenwa, that is a big question and the first time in my Career that I have had it. Therefore, I haven’t had to get my Head around it or train it. There is always a first time, isn’t there?Just let me dwell on this. I’ll be back.Regards

Ok. I am not often stumped but we must always admit it when we are. As I said, I haven’t met one of these. So the first thing I would say is to consult the Vets. The Horse may have a neurological problem, however……..

He may also not be comfortable, from a physical view point, to be able to get down there in the first place. Does he ever go down on the Ground? If not, I would show Him how.

I would train Him to lay down (as in the trick Horses – plenty of info Online) or as in the Endorphin Tap’ ( Google it) If one wanted to really get serious, I would fully train Him to the Power of Leg Restraints and, once he is on the Ground, make Him stay there to get his Head around it. 😀

Do ensure though, that he doesn’t have a physical reason, like Hock Problems, Arthritis and so on.

Regards

Leading Problem and more

Hi John,

I’m wanting your help with a horse I’ve recently purchased who does not respect me.

She is a 3.5year old mare, I bought her off a capable amateur who had her broken in not long ago.

She was going fine with me but started bad behaviour after awhile lunging her (in round pen, with halter, lunge rien and lunge her). One day, she turned in to face me and refused to move.

I got John Chatterton out to help a few times because I understood that this behaviour could escalate. He taught me to pull & release and said no more lunging for a short time. He also taught me long reining. Which she was doing fine until she started the same habit of turning in to the centre of the round yard again.

She then developed this habit of Stopping and refusing to move when being led and under saddle. I could get her moving with a pull & release on the ground and with a few taps of dressage whip under saddle.

I’ve stopped long reigning her as it puts me in a vulnerable position. A few weeks ago she spooked at another horse while I was leading her and run forward & kicked me in the thighs with both feet. Bad behaviour, as I am sure she knew where I was.

Yesterday, I took her from her herd to feed her and while leading her, she started bucking, spinning in circles, brushing past me as her herd and the adjoining herd were racing around their paddocks. I got another person to lead her back to the paddock instead of to the feed shed where I had been trying to take her because it is clear that she does not respect me and this situation was dangerous.

I will not be riding until I trust that she respects me. She’s been fine to ride, occasionally she’ll spook but I push her through it. Although I think her lack of respect could translate to worse behaviour under saddle.

I’m based in Brisbane and really need some help to get her to respect me. Whereabouts are you based? I appreciate you offer training advice online however we both need in person training. John has been hard to get hold of since I saw him last.

Kind regards
Pam

Hi Pam,

There are probably 2 things going on here. A touch of “Learned Helplessness” and/or, You needed a few more systems in Your Closet.

I asked You Yesterday, how do You lead Your Horses and You sent me a Photo, showing You leading in a commendable way, with the Horse a couple of metres out the back….BUT……I note that You have a Leather or Webbing Halter, as well as the ‘Fairy Floss’ Pony Club Lead Rope and of course, across my career, basically 100% of all so called problem Horses that have come through my Hands, have been wearing the same. So the first advice is to change the equipment. Pull and release does not work with such equipment anyhow.

Apart from that, 2 other things can help You at the instant and I recommend these because of the tyranny of distance here but knowing that You, the Owner, needs some short term effective weaponry.

  • You should add Leg Restraints Training to the package of training, instantly rising You up the Ladder of respect without even trying and removing some of the flight response and shenanigans
  • Throw in my system of join up, which will also grant You instant and major respect benefits, for now and the future if a reminder is needed…and
  • Do avail Yourself of the Natural Horsemanship wide body of Tools, as found here, with REAL HORSES.

In virtually all of these cases, there is some degree of confusion happening and the Horse Communicating because of frustration. You simply need more Tools.
Regards

He first disconnects the electrics and then jumps out

Hi. I have a problem with my horse continually jumping out of my property. He jumps 1.2 to 1.5 metre chain wire, pool fence, barbed wire and the electric fence. He disconnects the leads from the energiser box. I’m at my wits end. He is a four year old 1/4 quarter horse, 3/4 Arab just being broken in at the moment. The front of my property is a main highway and on one side is a couple of vacant blocks which lead onto another main road so his getting out is a major concern. I need help.

Lol, so he disconnected the Electric Fence does he???? 🤣🤣……then shift it. Easy. I hope You are therefore not trying to waste my time Folks.

After doing that (30 seconds work) Leg Restraints train the Horse and at any time You think he is in the mood for jumping, throw a set of Stockman’s hobbles on Him.

You can also train Him so You can Tether Him, like a Goat and again, end of problem. Just shift Him around. Here is my Stallion

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Regards

Hi John I am serious. I am not trying to waste your time at all. He disconnects the alligator clip from the fence.  I was given this horse last year and I kept him at a friends place for the first couple of months, until he started to chase her yearlings. I bought him home and all was good for a while. He was the only gelding in a paddock with four mates for company. He then started getting out.  I had no idea how this was happening although I found that the roos in the paddock would occasionally knock the fence down.  Because I live on a main road, this was a big concern. He would even get out of the stable (1.2m walls). After bringing him home after one of his escapades, I locked him in the stable, went to get his feed, turned around to watch him clear the wall dividing the stables. That was when I put 2 and 2 together. I’ve since put an electric fence 3-5 feet inside one of the boundary fences which is currently keeping him in there. Across the back fence, I have electric fence on stand offs. The fence is mesh with barbed wire across the top. He jumps this too. The boundary fence on the other side is a 1.2 m chain wire fence which he also jumps.  At the moment he is kept in two to three acres around the house yard. This is divided off by an electric fence too. The energiser is situated on this fence.  About a month ago, he was gone, only down the back, and when I checked the leads had been pulled out of the energiser. I replaced them and he did it again. Replacing them for the third time I zip tied all loose bits of the leads to the star picket and connected the alligator clip under the energiser which fooled him for a few days. Now when he’s missing, I immediately check the energiser for issues. He was gone, clip had been disconnected. I had then put a small trailer in front of the box but he was still able to disconnect it. I have now fenced it off with pool panels and the small trailer and that is working for now.  I have had a couple of suggestions, eg sidelines, a pawing strap, hobbles. My cousin found sidelines on your website and sent it to me, so I thought I would brooch the subject with you. You may have another solution that I’ve not been made aware of which is why I wrote.  I have to go away at the end of next month and I would like to have something that works in place while I’m away.  Thanks for any help you can give or suggest.  Regards Chris

Lol, he sounds like a Champion and should be sold to a Pony Club Show Jumper. He would be State Champion. If he is searching for other Horses, he is probably a ‘Rig’ and I shoot them 🙂

I would put electric outriggers around the electric fence unit, stand offs. I would also put wide stand offs, on the fence and if you use my invention (1972) it will cost little. 40mm poly here but you can use 32mm. Cut with hacksaw, drile hole in each end and roofing nails or tek screw (3 of them in a triangle) to fix onto the post.

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Now, I would go further. I would also screw extenders, up and above the post, with the same Polly and run a hot wire 2 foot above the fence as well. East. Couple of hours work only

but he MUST NOT get to that energizer. I would have it outside the Paddock of course. Only City Boys have them on or inside 🙂 Give Him a Carrot for me.

regards

Life’s Stories – One should never attack the Gracious

Facebook is a dangerous place and last Week, was the trigger for this story, one we were never going to tell, having shown forgiveness to this Young Lady, (3 times) for many Years now, but on the promotional Thread on the Science Horse Training Article, which was shared by another, I accidentally saw that on that Wall (where she would not expect us to see) she was being most unkind to us. She must have a short memory.

Alice Morley wrote …..This is not a valuable read. It is bagging people who are actually doing good work & promoting safety. You can’t just sign up for a PhD like an online course. I would suggest before sharing such uninformed articles, you look into the people he is trying to defame.

Well, it was roughly 10 Years ago now, Mz. Morley ( a Facebook World Expert on all things Horse) had an unclassified Warmblood Stallion that Paddock served and my Wife had a wonderful Mare that was about to compete at the Grand Prix Level but suffered an accident at the Hands of a Vet which ended Her Career. Arguably one of the top purebred Warmblood Mares in the Country.

Now we had spent $10,000 trying to get Her in Foal, with Frozen Semen from Europe but failed, so we were asked by Alice, could she use the Mare for a Season and we agreed, on the basis that it may help Her get in Foal more easily in the future. We allowed Alice to keep ownership of the Foal. The Mare was transported to Her Property at Meningie and apparently all was going well for a number of Weeks, she had been served and apparently in Foal.

Mz Morley and Her Husband were in the process of moving, from Meningie to Parawa, where Her Husband had scored a job of Managing a lovely Rural Property that co-incidentally, Decades earlier, Dad had managed for Ian Robinson. (since been purchased by Robert Champion de Crespigny

Bella was moved to 100 acres, also at Parawa, that housed Sheep whilst Mz Morley still lived in Meningie and there was no supervision at the property. The day after Alice moved Bella to Parawa, Mrs. HP got a psychic message from the Mare. We jumped in the Car and drove out there to check. Bella was frantic. Galloping around the top of the Paddock at Roadside, yelling to us and it appeared as though she had not been drinking and was badly tucked up. There were NO WATER TROUGHS!!!! The Mare was 3 Months Pregnant. How she retained the Foal, I will never know 😨

The Paddock, as I said, was 100 acres but downhill about a kilometre to the bottom, which we walked in search of Water or troughs.

Down the bottom of the Hill, there was a basically dry Spring Fed Creek which was mostly Mud. Alice had obviously not put the effort in to walk down there. The Sheep could risk leaning into what little Water there was there but due to the steepness of the Banks, a Horse would have slid in and been bogged down. The Mare had not been drinking and could not drink, in that dirty boggy Creek

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Back up the Hill, with the Mare following us, I carted 20 Litre Buckets 200 metres from an adjoining Neighbor’s Stock Trough and went Home to get the Horse Float. 🥵🥵 We made our distress known to Mz Morley and she rushed out there and picked the Horse up again.

We were most displeased and demanded the Mare be cared for properly and fed to Her 17.2 Hands Height, to rug Her properly and decided to give Her a second chance. She promised to do the right thing! 😪

The Mare was later moved again to Parawa. This time when Alice and her family also moved into the home on the property. We went out to visit Bella (the Mare) at their new Home in Parawa and to our great shock and sadness, she was a ‘shadow of Her former self, having dropped half Her Body Weight and was wearing a thin ill fitting Old Rug, in a very Cold Paddock that was wet and skirted by Pines. There was little feed available and of course the Horse can attest to that 🙁 Some crap Meadow Hay had been thrown into the Paddock but obviously no hard feed provided for the impending Mother!

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She had several untreated injuries (Mrs. HP seen in one of the photos above, examining) We were given all the promises again but……Morley was flying to Queensland the next Day (not good for the intensive care of a Mare in Foal) and so the next Day, we went back and seized the Horse and transported it 120k to our Equestrian Centre in Adelaide where Staff would care for Her 24/7.

We couldn’t possible see how she could retain the Foal but by some Miracle, to the benefit of Perpetrator, 7 Months later, a lovely Chestnut Filly arrived as we set about to do the right thing and Halter Start Her and all the rest of it, for she had to be Floated of course, back to the Owner.

We had Bella checked over by Dr. Sandy Harbison upon arrival at Golden Grove after seizing her back. She rated Her condition at a 1/5. She prescribed that we feed 5kg of Pellets a Day, plus all the other feed, costing around $1,000 for the effort. (we charged agistment to Alice but only at cost)

and of course we then had to care for both of them, so the Filly could be weaned and given to Alice. (Note the condition of the Mare AFTER FOALING at Gainsborough)

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We handed the lovely Filly over to the Owner We did not charge a cent for all the Work

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and transported Mum back to Victor Harbor….poor Girl 😥

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where Today, at 23 Years of age, could not be judged as poor 😥

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11/10/20

……….but we were not finished with Mz. Morley yet…….roll on the Years and we often wondered how the Mare was going but in 2019, ‘low and behold’ she was advertised on myaushorse and sold to a dear 60+ Year Old Friend of ours, (Breast Cancer Survivor) who then contacted us as she was immediately having problems, such as:

  • Rearing in Hand
  • Threatening to rear on the Flat when asked for submission
  • Rearing within Stables should she be pressured, and
  • with a serious psychological problem where she had hit Her Head on the Roof of a Trailer (Horse Float).

now it is not lost upon me, that the original trigger for this Article was Mz. Morley’s defense of Equine Science Training Systems, which I know from experience, often causes rearing Horses. I just wonder????? She is a big defender of it so why wouldn’t she have used it on this Mare, one that would not suffer unjust treatment, such as these Ground Training systems are with the ‘Jabba Jaw’ activities?

So we picked Her up from our friend on the agreement that we would thoroughly assess the Mare and if she could be rehabilitated, she could go back to the Owner but if she didn’t suit Her, Mrs. HP would buy Her (for she was a classy type with lovely movement), however, our Dear Friend had been sold either an unsound Horse or a mentally completely ruined Horse.

As an aside, the Buyer remembers that they Day she went to look at the Horse, in a Paddock at Normanville, it sidled up to near the Vendor and then tried to ‘double barrel her Head off, such was the relationship between Alice and the filly. “Listen to Your Horses

We really put the ‘hard yards’ into this Horse. 6 Weeks, full on. We talked to vets, the State’s top Chiro looked at her and more. Turned around Her condition again, Her Coat and made a huge difference to Her Muscle Tone. However, from Day 1, it was obvious that she had a soundness issue and in particular, her failure to be able to sustain or cope with ‘Collection’. It simply was not possible!! 😴

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and so despite all efforts, to turn the Veterinary problem around, we advised the Owner to request Her Money back, for the Horse was totally unsuitable for the purpose, under the Consumer Law. $8,000, however, the Gracious Lady decided to just take the losses 😧 Mz Morley had got used to being treated with kindness by People of integrity and here Her luck continued, for the third time, whereby the Husband was a Barrister but still she got a free Card😡

Here the Horse is on the last Day and the moment we decided that this was the end. “Listen to Your Horses”

and remember the rearing?…… for your interest, the Horse that has hit it’s Head on the Horse Float and indeed, Stables and other structures. See for Yourself. The Horse will tell You all.

So You think that’s it???? – Round 3

The Owner got the Local Vet to check the Horse over. As my Readers know, Vets’, despite their good efforts and training, CANNOT diagnose such injuries. They miss them all the time. All good to go!! What would we know?

She rang the Vendor up but alas, all the money had been spent of course. Standard fair these Days. The Purchaser then sent the Horse to another F.E.I. Professional at Finniss, to sell as a Brood Mare, but first she was briefly assessed under Saddle, however, Her Mother (Herself a Grand prix Rider of the past) said the mare was “too dangerous” and they could not put they re name on her to sell as a riding mount!….now get this 🤬

The Breeder sends in a ‘Pretender’ and she buys the Horse for $4,000. $2,000 expenses to the Victim and now the Breeder suddenly has a half Ownership in the Horse again, together with the ‘Pretender’.

All of a Sudden, just recently, I had a phone call from a perspective Buyer as the Mare has been on the Market again!!!!!!!! Asking us what we had experienced whilst having the mare.

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but the Sale hasn’t gone well. It’s now a Brood Mare, just like Mom 🤣

So there You go, the ‘Serial Pest’, Horse Lover and World expert. Facebook😕

“The Mongrels I have met”

The physical lengthening of the Neck of a Horse

This may surprise some Vet Students because they won’t hear about this at Vet School. This Horse, upon arrival, needed a 2 inch fold back each Day, of the Neck Rug.

Tonight, he doesn’t. His Neck has extended 2 inches in length, at the age of 9 Years, and in 10 Weeks. There You go PHD Students. Top that one 😁

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Tip of the Day

Victor Harbor of the Day

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